Sometimes I wonder, are we really more "advanced" than many of the other creatures that inhabit this planet with us?:
"Unlike humans, wild creatures strive for survival and die without complaint or expectation of anything better." --Flandrum Hill
Just a question.... I actually claim very few answers....
Life and death. On and on. Here in the north, whether in Flandrum Hill's Nova Scotia or here in my Minnesota, "Nothing makes the outdoors more uninviting at this time of year than blackflies and mosquitoes. There are thick swarms of them in the more humid areas.... It’s the females that are after blood to enable them to incubate their eggs, and they’re relentless in their pursuit. Any warm-blooded creature will do. But it won’t be long before they’re gobbled up in turn by baby birds. The cycle of life and death goes on."
Profundity from a Nova Scotian "pen." And I thought I would pass along the pondering....
Peace to you all today.
Addendum, Sunday, 7 June:
Or, a counter point to ponder offered by The Rambling Taoist (lifted from the comments box):
"How do we really know if other species "die without complaint or expectation"? Since we don't speak their language nor understand very much about the complexities of their worlds, they may complain just as loudly as we do and we simply don't realize it."
Thanks, RT.
Further addendum, Monday, 8 June:
I would also encourage you to check out the rest of the excellent discussion that ensued in response to The Rambling Taoist's comment above, and as well as his post "We Don't Know Jack," which was inspired by this discussion.
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"To die without complaint or expectation" - I like that and think probably it would make living and dying alot easier if we kept this in our thoughts.
ReplyDeleteGleaner,
ReplyDeleteYes, that resonated with me also, and actually I think that is how I wish to dies when that time comes....
Thanks for being here. :)
"Any warm-blooded creature will do."
ReplyDeleteBut why me??
Barry, I think a better question is "Why not you?" Would you rather it be your wife or your daughter?
ReplyDelete;)
I'm messin' with ya.
I was wondering about that too fw. Progress happens because someone expects something better and decides to take action. If the entire human race was satisfied with the way things were, we'd still be in the dark ages technologically, using candles for light and walking or using horses for transportation.
ReplyDeleteHowever,whenever we rely on a change outside of ourselves to solve a problem, we're missing an opportunity to be transformed internally by learning acceptance and patience.
I think each person would come to a different answer as to which response was more 'advanced.' Personally, I'm more for internal transformations, but I'm glad there are people on the planet who expect more. Hopefully one of them is going to find a solution to that drasted mosquito/black fly problem any day now ;)
Thanks for extending the discussion with your post :)
And thank you, flandrumhill for raising the issues in your comment. I wasn't taking a position with posting this really, just trying to generate some pondering and discussion, as I often do. It seems to me that the view you have articulated here is quite balanced.
ReplyDeleteI like the quote about mosquitoes, i think I'll copy that and take it with me next time I'm in a midge infested area of Scotland!
ReplyDeleteHow do we really know if other species "die without complaint or expectation"? Since we don't speak their language nor understand very much about the complexities of their worlds, they may complain just as loudly as we do and we simply don't realize it.
ReplyDeleteHave you ever tried pulling a noxious weed out of your garden. Some of those buggers just don't want to be pulled or dug up. As you're sweating and grunting trying to get the infernal thing out of the ground, maybe it's fighting you with everything its got, not wanting to give up the ghost.
Something to ponder.
Crafty Green Poet,
ReplyDeleteCool. :) Thanks for the visit.
RT,
Wow, something to ponder indeed. In fact, this one's coming out of the comments box and into an addendum to the post. Thanks!
Ah, but everyone also has different opinions on what constitutes progress. Is all the destruction and pollution caused by electricity and automobiles really progress? The problem is that it affects everyone whether they consider it progress or not.
ReplyDeleteAnd despite the hunting rhetoric about prey willingly giving up their lives, I very much think deer are feeling, "Damn that human/cougar/wolf."
RT is right. How do we really know if other species die without complaint or expectation? We don't.
ReplyDeleteI've seen birds and a dog that was part wolf die. They were very quiet and submissive. Yet I can't say for sure what was going on between their ears.
Last summer my son's girlfriend hit a fawn while driving in New Brunswick. It was very badly hurt. A ranger was called immediately, but he showed up without a firearm. He told my son to carry the fawn into the woods. My son said the fawn's screams were deafening as he carried it in his arms. It had no desire to go quietly.
Looking forward to the addendum fw. This is one tough topic. No wonder it makes you lose sleep at 3:00 am.
Initially I thought the same, "how do we know they don't feel these things" but then I thought but we know parts of the human brain responsible for these feelings and thoughts and we know that most animals don't have the complexity of the human brain or any of these structures or wiring. The human brain is particularly unique and complex - and this is not to diminish other species. It is these things, abstract reasoning and intellectual thought, that set us apart from the instinctual animal world.
ReplyDeleteWow, great discussion everyone. Thank you all for these further thoughts.
ReplyDeleteGreentangle,
Welcome, and I appreciate your weighing in on this.
Flandrumhill,
I really appreciate your willingness to think about this and to examine your own words. I can tell you though that I am not losing any sleep about such things; it just that when I am awake (already) in the quiet...I may ponder all sorts of things. :)
Gleaner,
I don't disagree with what you write here. By the same token, I think sometimes we think too much of ourselves (and too little of the others) as a species. And we have all seen the results of that--our hubris--on this planet.
But Gleaner, who is to say that the human brain is any more unique than any other brain? Who is to say that all of our complex wiring grants us any advantage in this realm? For that matter, who is to say that an entity or being even needs a brain to exist in a contented manner?
ReplyDeleteThe answer to all of these questions comes from us -- we pompous humans. Because this is the only form of existence we ourselves know, we egotistically assume that our brains, our "souls", our consciousness represents the highest form.
Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't. But to make a declaration, one way or the other, is a total stab in the dark.
Wow, I read these comments and thought maybe I had missed the topic...I suppose I thought the question was about whether animals have brains that keep them awake at night in deep contemplation, analysis and reasoning..(which are human constructs that can be tested for). So I say the human brain is unique in its human reasoning ability but that does not mean it is better or superior to animals. Animals also have their own uniqueness and abilities that us humans don't have..Do animals feel pain, of course they do, but do I understand it or would I assume to understand it would be dangerous and presumptious. Pompous humans take the flawed anthropocentric view of animals...do I think humans are superior to animals, no.
ReplyDeleteDo I think not knowing these things about animals means humans can kill and shoot and use animals, no, I'm against cruelty to animals. I think this topic can easily translate to the assumptions one culture makes of another culture, ie. Christians and Muslims. We can never truly understand unless we walk in their shoes.
Sometimes the more I see of humans the more I like animals!
RT and Gleaner,
ReplyDeleteThank you both for so thoroughly engaging this topic. I think you both raise valid points worth pondering, and I'm not sure that you're really in disagreement so much as differing in emphases. That is how I see it anyway. Thanks for a truly great and thought provoking discussion.
Yes your right FW, "different emphases", and I suppose misinterpretations are easy when one gives a brief comment. This is why blogging is a good medium to practice putting one's ideas and thoughts into some sort of coherent line of thinking (I'm still in early stages). I concur with RT and others here about the minute amount of information we can assert about the animal world.
ReplyDeleteYet again, you have provoked some great discussion here!
I don't have anything to add, but it is something I think about from time to time. For now I'm just glad to see Nova Scotia mentioned--my beautiful home.
ReplyDeleteGrace,
ReplyDeleteI am very glad you stopped by to add what you have added. :)
Hurray for Nova Scotia! And go Greens, eh? ;)