(I apologize in advance for the length of this post)
This blog has been up and running a relatively short time. I am amazed, humbled...very gratified at the number of subscriptions, daily visit stats, and regular commenters that come here to Forest Wisdom and read my musings here and engage in discussion in the comments box. Thank you. Thank you all so much.
Many times these last few months I have been amazed at the comments that many regular readers post. And many times I have been made to stop, think...ponder. Thank you again. If you know me, you know how much I value being made to think and examine my ideas and opinions in the light of others' perspective....
From time to time I have lifted excerpts out of the comments from a previous post because I felt that the thoughts and ideas expressed were too good to leave buried in the comments box but rather needed to be brought into the light of another post. So here once again.... Below is an exchange that took place in the comments of yesterday's post about Wendell Berry between myself and "The Grizzled But Still Incorrigible Scribe Himself!" This exchange in turn prompted me to post for you the videos of Mr. Berry at the bottom of this post.
Grizzled:
"I do think Wendell Berry the man is different from Wendell Berry the writer; I think within his act of writing he often preaches one thing while practicing the other. For example, in the quote which appears at the top of your blog…"I dream of a quiet man who explains nothing and defends nothing…” I see both isolationist and contrarian, when I doubt Berry is either. Does a man who will neither defend nor explain therefore lack passion? If not, is nothing worth defending? Or sharing. How does that square with freedom, caring, a willingness to try and make our self, our home, or life, the life of others, and our planet better? Does he lack belief? I’d say Berry’s writing proves otherwise.
Sure, he might be saying “I wish it were that no man ever needed to explain and defend…” expressing the hope that everyone were always on the same page, identical in their beliefs, members of a Utopian race in a Utopian world. But we’re not…no matter your political leanings or spiritual foundations—or lack of either. And no one knows and understands this better than a farmer, which Berry certainly is in a real get-your-hands dirty way.
His philosophy of writing, too, doesn’t quite square up with the end result. Writing is both art and process. Any reasonably intelligent person can learn to write competently, just as a they can learn to paint a landscape or play a tune on the piano. There are a lot of competent practitioners...making a living...out there.... Then there are the artists—the ones with real, genuine, God-given, born-in-the-genes talent. Some with so much talent they’re scary.
....True art carries within in it real soul. It comes from that mysterious process, the alchemy of talent and work, of finding your unique “voice,” your soul, and rendering it unto your creation. Yes, a writer needs to have something to say (we’re talking writer in the artistic sense, not the commercial wordslinger) but you also have to reach, to learn, to master the process…and I know for a fact it is hard, hard work. I also know Wendell Berry is a fine writer. The process may come easier for him because of talent, age (he’s simply written a lot over the years) and mastery of his instrument.
No one “needs” to create poetry. It springs, in its best forms, from deep within—not due necessarily to the notion of sharing, but in order to give tongue and life to that emotion, that thought, that experience which resonated inside your spirit and needed birthing in material form. Berry is too much the poet not to write from need, and too much the writer not to need to do it well."
Me:
"I can neither explain nor defend Berry here. ;) But I will agree with you that there has to be a little more to Berry's artistic process than he let's on. :)
Also, Berry was once on the academic track--he taught English at NYU--but left it to return to his Kentucky home turf and to farm, and has stayed there ever since. His writing is certainly informed and permeated by his intentional rural life.... But Berry has certainly studied his craft thoroughly, no matter what he says, there's no doubt.
And he is indeed a man of action not merely words and quietude in the Kentucky countryside. But here again, I've no doubt that this, like his writing, springs from his person and the life he lives. If Berry were not the contemplative farmer and poet/essayist/novelist that he is, he could neither be the environmental activist that he is.... I think what we may have here is horses before carts (and not vice versa) and identifying source...source of his writing and source of his life. That source is to be found deep in the Kentucky countryside and in the man "who explains nothing and defends nothing but only knows where the wildflowers bloom." I do not think we are dealing with contradiction here.
Hmmm, I guess I did end up trying to explain and defend a bit after all, didn't I? ;)"
Grizzled:
"You're right about all this, I'm sure. In a way, Berry has already answered much of this for us, putting himself as farmer first, then writer…and trying to make us believe that the latter shouldn't come about until the former is taken care of momentarily, farming be a rather constant process.
That I don't quite believe him is because I understand—as you do—the quality and sheer quantity of Berry's work. And make no mistake, writing at Berry's level is work, regardless of talent, which Berry has by the barnful. I suspect he's being much like those British Upper Class novelists who offhandedly discount their writings as "just a little something I knocked out while on holiday," though the rest of us know it will become a bestseller (no measure of literary quality, of course) and be taught in English Literature classes a hundred years hence.
Maybe Berry's lucky days of silence refer to a silence not of sound, but of need—of things which need to be addressed and defended and worried over…and possibly written about."
Grizzled's mention of a "silence of need" made me do a lot of thinking. I love the concept, especially as Grizzled begins to describe it. And truly, I think it--as I am understanding it--comes close to approximating what I am driving at and for in my appropriation of the Berry quotation in my profile that Grizzled briefly took slight issue with: "I dream of a quiet man who explains nothing and defends nothing, but only knows where the rarest wildflowers are blooming, and who goes, and finds that he is smiling not by his own will." --Wendell Berry, from II, Sabbaths 1999, in "Given"
I have previously shown you (through posting his poems and through commentary about him) the contemplative Wendell Berry. Here is below is Wendell Berry the activist. In the videos below Berry speaks out against Mountaintop Removal mining and environmental destruction on the capitol steps in Frankfort, KY, at the February 14, 2008 demonstration, part of annual I Love Mountains Day. These videos are worth watching for Berry's language alone, Berry is as eloquent in public speech as in print.
"You cannot regulate an abomination, you have to stop it."
"I've been patient for 43 years.... If you, my friends, are wiling to stand in the way of this destruction until it is stopped, then I too am ready."
(Both quotations from Part 2)
Part 1:
Part 2:
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Yes, good to put forward Berry's activism as well as his quietude... "Civil Disobedience"...echoes of Thoreau here...
ReplyDeleteEchoes of Thoreau indeed! And it's not the only correspondence either. :)
ReplyDeleteI know this sounds trite and obvious, but what I get from W. Berry, the poet, the activist and the farmer, is that he is grounded/rooted/living in silence. His words and his action arise not from any need to say or explain, but from that silence. He does not set out to "write" or to "act". Berry is aware of what is before (or underneath, or all around) words and action, and that is what he was pointing to in the poem.
ReplyDeleteIt's the mark of a contemplative.
That being said, I really like what Grizzled has to say about talent and art, and how true art carries within it real soul, and it is obvious, to me at least, that W. Berry is a true artist.
But what does that say of the rest of us who are not "artists", or have no perceivable "talent". Do we lack "real soul"? Or just how is it that the ordinary, average person defines her/his soul and passion? Could one's life itself be considered a working of "art", with all of the passion and soul of the world's greatest artists? And does finding that wavelength involve all of the energy and self-surrender of art?
(Sorry if I got carried way away with my train of thought).
Forest Wisdom:
ReplyDeleteOh, my…I’m near dumbstruck with emotions. To find our exchanges featured thus is, umm-m, delightfully appalling. I’m flattered you thought some of my comments worthy of further life—annotated to their betterment, I might add—and sheepish at the sheer bulk of my blathering.
At which point I’ll refrain from all urges to comment on our comments. Believe me, I’m doing us both a favor here!
Instead, I’ll close with uncharacteristic brevity after offing a web address of possible interest: http://www.lannan.org/lf/rc/event/wendell-berry/
You may know this already, and have perhaps already listened to the Berry piece. If not, you’ll like it. And incidentally, this site also has conversations/readings/presentations with Gary Snyder, Jim Harrison, W.S. Merwin, and a passel of poets and writers. Just click under the R&C Calendars found screen-right, download to desktop or iPod, burn on a CD, whatever. Enjoy.
I have only recently found your blog via Solitary Walker...how wonderful to read both blogs. I love knowing there are others out there in the world that love silence, nature and Thoreau!
ReplyDeleteBella
Beth,
ReplyDeleteYes, I think you have hit the mark here completely, and thank you for articulating it so well. Indeed, what this is about is a rootedness and a grounding in silence from which the arising of words and actions comes..not from a need, or at least not from a need that constitutes attachment. I do believe you are correct that he does not "set out" to write or act...only to be.... This si indeed what he is getting to in the poem and indeed the mark of a true contemplative.
As for your comments re: Grizzled, and the questions you ask there, I can only answer one of them at all: "Could one's life itself be considered a working of "art", with all of the passion and soul of the world's greatest artists?" I would like to think so, yes. :)
Once again, you have given me more food for thought; I'll be chewing on this for awhile. :)
What you wrote does not seem trite to me, and please, get carried away any time you like here. :)
Grizzled,
ReplyDeletePlease, no need for sheepishness. Your comments brought nuances to the discussion that were quite deep. You depricate yourself too much, my good sir.
I will check out the link. Thank you. It sounds like a place right up my street, so to speak.
Peace to you.
Bella,
Welcome! I'm so glad you stopped by and left a comment, and glad you found something of value here. Peace to you as well.
Forest…I apologize, really I do. But I want to say something to Beth because she brings up a point, a question, that I was afraid might arise.
ReplyDeleteTo clarify, not my comments, but my beliefs re. art. I guess to me real art is able to withstand the test of time—ages and cultures. In writing, for example, a reader a thousand years in the future ought to be able to pick up your story or essay or poem and find something in it that moves him. Does it entertain, make him think, illuminate or convert or give solace? Does it make him weep or laugh, feel despair or hope? Does it clarify or codify his thinking or living? Does it induce a harmonic resonance in his soul?
That’s art…but if you accept only that definition, you’re apt to miss one of the most important lessons in—at least as I see it—and that is that “art” is indeed in life and living. There are no ordinary people. A life well lived, no matter your circumstances or intellect or talent, is a life of passion—of soul—and it will always require energy and self-surrender. Will it stand the test of time? Yes! To slightly misquote Donne, we are not islands—what we do, the children we raise, how we leave the land we trod upon—the legacy of our passage in a thousand forms—carry into tomorrow and the day after and the year after that…and for centuries uncounted beyond our imagination.
It is therefore important to be the best of whatever we can be—in the name of art.
Grizzled,
ReplyDeleteWell said. Really.
And for the __th time, no apologies are necessary. Really.
Discussion are what comments boxes are for...I think...and the discussion here (with you in them) are good and welcome.
Be at peace with it. :)
Yes, Grizzled, it is the artist who somehow awakens that realization in each of us - the timeless and universal call to recognize and be who and what we are.
ReplyDeleteBack to Wendell Berry ...
Looking over the 2 books of his that I have on my shelf (The Hidden Wound, 1989, and What Are People For, 1990) I am hearing the prophet as much as the artist.
Berry is “old-fashioned” in that he doesn’t use a computer or watch TV, and he is a back to basics kind of guy. Rooted in what is essential. His writing clearly shows how the move away from a land and family-oriented economy has led to a modern spiritual wasteland. Rather than preaching gloom and doom, he urges an awakening, a healing, a return to a more direct (hands in the dirt) experience and understanding of life.
He also, in a way that I have never, ever seen before, exposes the source and progression of the economical problems that plague America: social injustice. He claims that these are spiritual and moral issues, not political or economic ones, and our present way of doing things will eventually fail.
"The prophet as much as the artist."
ReplyDeleteYes! And may I tweak that ever so slightly to "the prophet as much as the artist."
Berry is a "prophetic" voice, that's for sure.
Thanks again, Beth, well said.
This was another really good thought provoking discussion. I continue to be amazed at the breadth and depth of you and your reader's knowledge AND wisdom.
ReplyDeleteThis discussion about words and silence reminds one of the philosophical Logos principle - originating in St John's Gospel: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
ReplyDeleteFrom the Divine Light, from the silence of God, God chose to communicate with Man through Christ(God did not have to, but chose to?)
From the inscrutable silence of God came also the Pentecostal wind which bore the Holy Spirit - giving men the compulsion to speak in strange tongues.
The silences, the spaces between words are just as eloquent as the words themselves, just as the silent gaps and empty bars between notes are as essential to a musical composition as the notated music itself.
But behind all these words and silences lies the ultimate silence and mystery, the Buddhist 'Om' or however we may like to term it.
The silence of quiet acceptance which Keats arrives at in the last 2 lines of his sonnet I quoted in my last blogpost.
Oh dear, I'm rambling on myself now..! Hope all this is slightly connected with the ongoing discussion, but I fear my thoughts are taking a direction all of their own...
Val,
ReplyDeleteMe too. :)
SW,
No worries. Permission to ramble in my comments box is granted. :)
I do see what may be a slight connection. :)
Thank you all for making me think and for, as Val said, all your wisdom and knowledge.
Peace